What about the curses and hexes involved? Is this demonic warfare and does it desensitize players to true evil in the world?
Neither the skills nor the context of World of Warcraft are demonic in nature or have much to do with witchcraft or sorcery. Calling down fire from heaven or placing a hex on a foe to drain health doesn’t feel like personal control over nature as much as it feels like another strategic puzzle piece to defending yourself while defeating of the foe.
I would liken it to movies such as Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Wizard of Oz, The Matrix, or The Chronicles of Narnia. Are there spiritual overtones in these movies? Sure. Will watching them (even multiple times) have a spiritual impact on the viewer? Probably not. Watching Gandalf perform his magic and dramatically shout, “You shall not pass!” makes me tingle with excitement, but it doesn’t make me want to adopt his magical powers for my life.
Does World of Warcraft have spiritual overtones? Sure. Will playing the game have a spiritual impact on the player? Probably not.
That said, children are not able to completely discern fantasy from reality. (Who hasn’t watched Superman as a child and tried flying by jumping off the top bunk?) I would advise that elementary-aged kids not be permitted to play the game, but teenagers and adults, being more developed mentally and emotionally, are capable of making the differentiation.
[ Read other “World of Warcraft FAQs for Christians” in this series ]
Posted on January 30, 2007
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I sugguest you read He Came To Set The Captives Free by Rebecca Brown M.D.
also Exposing The Darkness by Carol Kornacki.
You have a greater accountability 1 Tim:4
For my people are destoryed for the lack of knowledge.. HOSEA 4:6
I've read He Came to Set the Captives Free! My mother had the book and encouraged me to read it!! Great book! Anybody that doesn't think the Warcraft game has a negative impact, check this video out!
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I'm sorry, this is the link..
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v…
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us that we have the mind of Christ. Both Job and David said that they had made a covenant with their eyes not to look upon evil. In truth, young people are very susceptible to the allure of power. I’m not sure if you spend much time with young people in middle school especially, but they are attracted to anyone or anything that offers them control and power. Video games, tv shows, moves, etc., that do not give God credit for the power which they have are either taking that credit for themselves or they are giving it to some mystical or magical, unnamed power source. According to Scripture, that is idolatry. Would you tell you son, “A little bit of pornography isn’t going to kill you. I mean, just don’t get into the heavy stuff. But looking at a couple magazines is fine. I mean, it won’t really hurt you”? In effect, you are saying, “A little witchcraft isn’t going to hurt you. I mean, just don’t get into the heavy stuff. But a few hexes, magic spells in a game doesn’t mean your going to run out and actually put hexes on real people. It’s just a game.” What you need to realize is that, for most children, their imagination is an escape for them from bad realities of abuse, neglect, and lack of love. If their imagination offers them control and power, they will make it their reality at any cost. I know many young people who have done this. Our youth pastor was the top witch in his coven before he came to know Jesus. You may say what you like, but the desire for power can very easily lead to the actual practice of witchcraft. And, as we would say about adultery or murder, moderation is NOT the answer – complete abstinance is! Instead of introducing young people to the god of magic, we don’t we introduce them to the God of signs and wonders – namely, Jesus! God offers real power to His children – the power to be free from all sin, to raise the dead, to heal the sick, and to transform lives by the Word of God. If we will introduce our children to the real source of power, we will find their ‘need’ for power is satisfied. However, when we offer them mere religion that has no impact on their day to day lives, they will seek the power to change themselves and have control over their realities in other places – namely, darkness. And, by the way, you should probably spend more time in the word of God before you give you opinion about how other people ought to raise their children. You are speaking folly from an untrained and unsubmitted heart. This is very obvious from your apathetic and immature tone. Thank you.
Woah now, those are some pretty hefty accusations that you have absolutely no basis to make. Disagreeing with me is fine, but jumping to personal attacks and judgments is out of line, unnecessary and downright unChristlike. Without stooping to such tactics, thank you for your input. I get your point, but no matter how hard I try I cannot make that connection between WoW and witchcraft. It’s just not there, which means one of two things: Either I am completely blinded or you are ignorant to what WoW is really about and have swallowed a lot of false assumptions. Since I’ve actually checked out the game and do my best to follow God’s Word and His convictions in my life, I’ll have to go with the first option.
P.S. Please resist the urge to post back here with a lot of Bible verses that make this issue black and white for you. I’m not interested in a debate. I know your opinion, you know mine and one day we’ll be worshiping at the throne together. See ya then!
I hope to make this just a quick comment. (hope) My concern is this: what is the source of the video game? Is the source of it demonic? I’m not familiar with the game you are discussing here, but i’m concerned in general, as i have children. I believe truly that some games are demonic in origin, and by looking at the picture of the above mentioned game, it seems to boast of its origin. God’s children are truly in a battle. The enemy isn’t playing games. And according to Genesis, he’s actually very subtle. He will try to get in any way he can, without anybody being able to tell that it’s him. Though games like this aren’t subtle to me, they are to some. Let’s say that this and other games are demonic in origin– is there harm in that? If they are, and the devil isn’t “playing games”, then what is his purpose in getting our children (for example) to play these games? Or to get these into our homes? He must then be doing some kind of spiritual harm that we can’t see. My children were playing a game called “Crash Bandicoot”. Into the first few seconds of it, i didn’t feel right– something bugged my spirit. I wanted to like it, but something wouldn’t let me. I felt that there was something demonic about it. Throughout the game i saw demonic indian looking faces, etc. and this troubled me. Yesterday i found that there was strange looking mask in it, that bugged my spirit. I looked the game up a few minutes ago. On wikkipedia, i found that the mask thing following Crash around in the air is called “aku aku”, a voodoo mask. (No wonder i kept getting a yuck feeling in my head, like the start of a mild headache, when i would see this game.) That concerns me–what is the point of this being in this game (what was the enemy’s intention); also, what is the spiritual harm that can be done? Games like this are open doors to the enemy, thus giving permission to demons to let them trouble our home. Is that what we want? God has made it clear that we should have nothing to do with these things. Also, a few weeks ago, a brother was burdened to put out a message for christians to check their homes for items that are displeasing to the Lord (i don’t know if used those words). In the Old Testament, God’s people were told not to bring the accursed thing into their homes. There are video games that are accursed, and if we keep them in our homes, who knows what the implications could be? I hope that somebody will read this, and consider the things that are in their homes, and the things that they allow their children to play and watch. Be blessed in Christ.
Firstly I want to say I am not a legalist or a purtain just a Christian who has a child. Also I was into deep witchcrafta nd many other occultic scenes prior to becoming a Christian.. I was into the occultic way beyond most Christians imagination.
Scriptures are fine they are the best and compiled from my perspective the WoW is demonic comeon it is what holds on to the childrens attention. I live in japan and some of the video games you will never get imorted from here but they are addictive but Wow is very addictive. I know we can say each person is different but all the people are the same remeber Dungeons and Dragons they said it was harmless and children actually did what they were told and killed fellow children they were hypnotized as are the children of today. I looked at You tuibe visdeos using Wow they seem harmless but fortify the children’s beliefs in Wow andthink now the world has accepted WoW because it is use ramptanlly in commercials. the god of this world is making good what is bad . Will we tolerate this as Christians or will we pray iy down. Remember God hears the prayers of a righteous man and and listens carefully as long as it is prayed with the right motives
I myself play World of Warcraft and I am a Christian. First of all, most of what I have witnessed in the game is that it does have magic in it and all that jazz, but I have never seen or heard of it impacting someone spiritually. I have talked to many people inside the game in voice chat and most of them are older and/or married. Many people who play it are also Christians. Within the game, there have been many groups that have developed to play the game while ministering to people who don’t have a personal relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Yes it does have magic, but so do many other programs! If we are going to boycott everything that is negative, then we could not watch Superman (or any other super-hero shows for that matter), we couldn’t embrace dates which were originally pagan i.e. Halloween (the obvious) and even birthdays!
The truth of the matter is, sin is everywhere, including our human nature. Jesus has paid the price for that sin and we will one day be able to enter Heaven (those who believe) but we will always sin. We simply can’t help ourselves. Jesus did not avoid the sinners while he was here, he ministered to them! We have to be IN the world, but we don’t have to be OF it.
If you feel you may be impacted negatively by the game, simply don’t play it. If you feel your young child may have problems with it, then don’t let him/her play it. (It does have an age rating). But if we want to share the good news of Jesus Christ, we have to get “in there” and get our hands dirty. Guarding our hearts is what we should be doing, not cutting ourselves off from the one’s who need Jesus the most.
It is clearly written in Galatians 5:19-21, God forbids sorcery.
“Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Do you know that the sorcerers are recommending this game as their educational tool? Think again if you think a little of magic, spell casting, hexing in games and movies are ok.
Sup Im a christian and I play WOW. im not going to get into scripture here, I just wanted to comment on this subject. Its only a game people and if everyone runs and jumps off a bridge you dont have to. you have free will choice as long as you dont make this game your god or go about playing it in a sinfull evil manner or letting it control your life then fine. Do what god wills minister to the people who play the game turn lives to christ just make sure your really putting god first. and it’s probably not a good idea to sit for 24 hours playing it and not pay attention to god or spend time with him in his word. Here you have lots of opinions but thats all we as peopel can do speak our opinion God has his word his truth his way truth and life and to love god is to obey him..I imperticularly play this game quit often but its just a phase if god calls me to do somthing else im gone. the game is just a simple video game only the world wants to turn it into a mystic realm to gain profit so they do what ever they can to get the people to like it. there much more serious stuff going on then a simple game my friends like war pestilences and the unsaved: so what is our mission you ask. if you ask me our quest is quite clear Lol. be still and wait apon the lord let him guide you obey the commandments. we simply should pull the plug on everything because evil resides in everything of the world. but that doesnt mean you cant make it threw it. you have god of course you can make it threw anything but serisly you guys its just a game
so turn off your tvs because theres sin all over that turn off your computers its completly sinfull you will get drawn into temptation that it offers no matter what. unless you are of course christ himself and yes i acknowelege our god. cuz he is right here chillen with us threw it all So my friends and foes and those who have turned away how can you escape satan and his wrath to come?? simple Except jesus as your lord and savior. ask for forgiveness of your sins that you have committed and the ones you dont know you committed. start reading your bible daily, and pick up your cross and walk. were led where were led for a purpose be a light to the world in all that you do weather it be a game. or your job or anything else cuz what you do is for him and thank him for everything he allows you to do all your possessions belong to him in the first place otherwise you wouldnt even have them in the first place he would take them away. use your gifts wisely and always ask your self what would jesus do in a situation like this. Save the lost. thank you very much for reading my post And god bless you all eather you liek me or not we are family and we all have much to learn. so one day at a time allright folks im out thanks again !!:¸¸,»ïÏï«,¸¸MANIFESTEDINTHEFLESH¸¸,»ïÏï«,¸¸
and by the way sorcery is liek the old pharmakia in hebrew meaning enchantment with drugs. the sin behind it is those giveninto and over come by it. liek your local pot head or drunkard. or given into and overcome by this simple game. not much diffrence in it than monoply all fantasey so use it as a tool to save the lost good can come from evil and vice versa. so be carefull. There is not a sin that can keep a true believer out of heaven .. yes we all have allready fallen short of the glory of god.
so dont be a numskull and let satan trick you thinking you yourself can cast fireballs and such. were such a bad generation of vipers allready lets not make things worse by the things we speak were judged on everyword that proceed out the mouth of god and its not what comes in us it what comes out of us..so like i said SHINE YORE LIGHT BE A LIGHT TO THE WORLD wherever you are and what your doing. and my brothers n sisters pray for me if i lack of knowlege in this area or you see where i may have stumbled correct me freely with scripture but not out of context give me the hole Scripture and chapter !!!the mind of God is a terrible thing to waste!!!
you will see the guild in in website. if you care to join and play the game on your free time there are a few in the guild who represent the word of god and are scholers in it. and there are some who are atheist or who dont believe please pray for them thank you.
I just recently quit WoW. I’ll give a brief overview of the game.
Many of you know its a MMO (Massiv Multiplayer Online) meaning your playing the game with a very large number of people. In this game you ‘create’ a character, you can choose a race, a type of class, male or female, etc. After that character is made, the game briefly tutors you on the controls and the unique abilities of the game.
A lot of you are thinking “Oh, my kids should not play this, it has sorcerery and witchcraft” Basically the game revolves around interacting with other players and actually teaming up with people (usually randomly) to overcome obstacles inside the game.
The problem with this is that this takes a very large amount of time. (usually 3 hours or more) to do something like complete a dungeon or go up a few levels. There is also the level of ADDICTION that comes with this game. Like earlier, a large majority of the warcraft gamers are married. And are more than willing to stay up all night playing the game with their ‘online friends’ instead of their spouse.
Needless to say, this game has ruined many relationships because of its highly addicting nature.
To enlighten you, the game can be fun and amusing, but gambling and alchohol can be fun too right? All these things are dangerously addictive, and that is in the bible correct?
I have been playing this game for roughly 10 months. I made two characters, explored about 99% of the games entire content and spent more time on this game than i would reading the bible or just living life. The game is very very ADDICTIVE. Go on google or yahoo and look up WoW addiction or WoW Detox. There are CLINICS to help people, teenagers and adults to get their minds off the game and get them back to reality.
It was easier for me since i dont have a strong addictive personality. I just went cold turkey and i havent even looked at my CD case since then.
That is the game of warcraft. Its not the fact that you use magic and special abilities to play the game, that doesnt affect you mentally or spiritually (unless you have a mental disorder), what it WILL do is affect you behavior and the way you view life. And didnt god say we should stay away from all forms of addicting behavior?
If you think gambling is bad, then world of warcraft is no different. Unless you are 100% POSITIVE, and completely SURE, that you or your loved one does NOT have an addictive personality, allow them to play it. Warcraft is not evil, but it can become so if you allow it to seep into your life and control you.
The game is not “demonic”. The game was made by humans, in case you were wondering.
The day God or the Devil take a part in programming, developing and producing MMORPGs, will be the day we discover Santa really does make all those toys.
Get a grip, people. Not everything with horns is a demon.
I am the parent of a seventeen year old who has been playing the game for over a year now. When I first looked at the pictures on the cover of the game I became concerned. He argued, “It’s just a game” and that he is not worshipping demons or anything. I may sound a bit overprotective, but I have noticed behavior changes lately. He was becoming increasingly depressed and said this game helped “calm” him. He began missing school due to physical illness symptoms of depression. I have brought this game to the attention of my spouse who isn’t as in tune with spiritual deception. I want this game shut down and am on my sons site while he is out of the house. I think as Christians God has given us wisdom and discernment. I agree with the person who said earlier…should we say…it’s okay…just a little…of this or that. If our home is truly to be a place where we can say…”As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord” Then what kind of “compromise” are we making here. Until my husband agrees to shut it down I have prayed protection over all of us and literally annoint the computer and my son daily. I have explained that “renewing” your mind with good things can not be found at this source. This is a source but it is the wrong source. It is a source of darkness. Those Christians who agree with me please pray my son won’t miss it and see the light where he as others may be “blinded” to truth. He who the Son sets Free is Free indeed. I pray all of you who are Christians playing this game with be enlightened by God’s Holy Spirit and that this stronghold will break here and with you as well. God loves his kids…God help us all.
it seems like your son just got to much into the game and started missing school. cuz probably all he wanted to do is play wow. ive been playing the game for years i can see where that may step into play as far as his depression thats coming from somewhere else. l;ack of love lack of friends lack of communication somthin in his past mabey lack of sleep lack of a lot of things im no doctor but its preety simple to see. as far as the game goes while u turn off your computers tunr off your tvs turn off your radios and everything else if you want to rid demonic temptation out of the household. but remember when all thats gone then we as human look to otherthings to take place we cant exactly escape sin can we. we are supose to obey god but we break his laws everyday. why else do you think he sent jesus to save us hello were saved!! dont be so hard on your selves or you will miss the abundance of life forgive and forget and dont do it again if you do you know how to ask for forgiveness it just seems people are beating them selves up over god and finding things liek a game or tv or somthin to blame it on were the ones to blame we let it go on but honestly tv computers and all thease other devices we have are great tools great inventions! u can spread the word of god all over the place! isnt thatawsome! your all using a computer if your coming to this site …lol forgive forget relax and wait on the lord no more stressing out ok body of christ.! just put god in everything you do and it will come out fine!.
You should include, “A Step Into Deliverance” by T. Pugh into your reading. It is a riveting autobiographical account of one pastor’s battle with and ultimate defeat over the spirit of jezebel. A real page turner, it is two books in one: an autobiography and a deliverance manual.
I am 51 years old the mother of three sons…a 22 year old musician, 26 year old police officer/teacher and a 29 year old Sheriff and we are a christian family. My 54 year old husband who is in Christian Ministry was given this game this past Christmas 2007 and it totally consumed him day and night for all of Christmas vacation.
It brought spiritual oppression into our home and I had severe depression and shocking suicidal whispers into my ear from out of left field. I didn’t have any reason to be depressed or for goodness sakes even ever consider suicide. I thought wow, this is how satan and his demons work to get kids depressed and then to kill themselves.
The Holy Spirit showed me after a week, that it was the game my husband was playing and I asked my husband to stop playing it… either it went or I did! The following weekend he started playing it again which I felt an immediate deep depression which made me think he was playing the game once more. We had a long discussion about it and now he is finished once and for all with ever playing it again.
We discussed it tonight with our two sons still living at home and the 26 year old didn’t fully agree with me, but he will not be playing it anymore. Our 22 year old didn’t touch it with a 10 ft. pole when it came into our home because he too felt demonic forces and oppression in our home when it came in.
After discussing it at great length and praying about it as a family this is the bottom line. My husband knows and agrees he has been desensitized along with society and tried to justify playing it because he didn’t “feel” oppressed or “thought” it was wrong, but would agree it created an addicting behavior.
Going to Gods word which never changes, which is the same yesterday, today and forever. He knew he was wrong (and didn’t want to admit it because his flesh enjoyed playing it) and the Word Of God was right!
So to those of you who “Feel” it isn’t wrong…I challenge you to get into the Bible and let God Show you it is! We walk by faith in the word of God, not by feelings! We can either see the truth through Gods eyes (Bible) or believe satans whispering “feel good” lies! Hath God said, isn’t that what got Eve in trouble…are you going to believe satans original deception and lie,hath God said? Or, are you going to believe our Loving Heavenly Father the one who wants to bless and protect you…or the other one who wants to curse you, put you in bondage and destroy you!
The choice is truly yours… bondage or freedom?
Mom Higgins
My husband is addicted to WOW and truly I believe that when you are that into it your ability to clearly understand what others are saying is compromised! He is completely unable to say no! For a time we had the same discussion and he realized that his family would leave if he didn't stop playing. Then he stopped playing for about 3months but now two years later we are fully back there. He plays instead of sleeping. Misses work due to lack of sleep, commits 2 nights a week to guild game play and then plays every day on his own for undetermined amounts of time. And yeah it makes me feel crazy! The fact that his two children are here and being ignored because he is in a game makes me angry and disappointed, and it hugely leads to depression on my part as well. I am constantly praying and seeking Gods refuge from the feeling of being alone in my marriage and the horrible feeling that there is something wrong with me. My heart goes out to anyone who experiences the emotional abandonment that WOW creates. There is a "cute" but all too true term of WOW widow, and frankly I'm sick of it. I personally am not sure what to do with my situation anymore. We have argued and I have left but don't feel it is best for our family but I'm not sure how to regain his attention. I understand that part of why he plays WOW is to feel important, like he is part of something but I'm not sure why his family and God can't fill those voids. But then mabye if he spent that amount of time with us then we would!
I cannot believe this bullshit I’m reading. Do any of you know what a video game is? Your comparing spiritual religion to a video game? You say it consumes you lives, and it produces suicidal thoughts? Well guess what, if a video game does that to your kids, husbands, whoever, well then they deserve it. We do not need simpled minded people who have nothing better to do but let a video game take their lives over.
In my opinion, your all full of crap.
well here goes another post by me. Ive seen this game first hand take over peoples free time and then some they get very addicted to the game many people do… your not really a superior individual just becaause your not addicted to this game, im certain that you have addictions that are wrong just like everyone else does no one is perfect im saying. but in reality this game is nothing more than fantasey based video game we as children all grew up with hobbits tales halloween ect ect books in all school libraries so we all can relate in one form or fashion to its purpose and ect. The point is not that we should condem the game or things of this nature but to be strong enuff as christian who follow christ to not put thease things first in our life or let them control us. Now if the game is causing you to get into wicca and witch craft ect and drawing you into what we like to call the Occult then as a christian as we know it it can and does bring negative spiritualism into our lifes. But this is just a game u say. of course simple just a game and if you can look at it liek hey this is just a game fun to play i like the quests and being able to throw a fireball or so at a made up fictional charactr toon then hey have fun u know nothing diffrent than playing cops or robbers as kids or what ever exept this is a bit more advanced with killing violence and crusading..if your responsible enuff to play it then go ahead. just dont let anything bring you away from god. and if you know what sin is then you know not to be praticing the occult arts and ect god gives us specific guidlines and laws in our lifes for good purpose and reason. so in my bad typed paragraph i hope u find this information usefull and are not beating your selfs up over a game and struggling with god about it if you are Just go to god and have a talk with him refresh your self in god and his word then use your spiritual eyes to look at the game and life and everything else then it will be a little bit more clear and you can determin weather this kind of stuff is taking over your life and pulling you away from god or if its just for fun and ect . like ive said b4 i played the game for a year i had a few moments where i got addicted and played it every day for hours cuz it was that much fun. but for those wasted hours playing this game i could have put them to use and been doing gods work or even ministering to people in the game more than i was doing. but yes i did do a bit of ministering in the game and found a few good christians in there .. we live in a big world guys and its full of sin– sin we dont even know were committing so its best to Get strong first b4 you go out into the world so u can be responsible and know how to deal with each situation first hand * how u ask common sense and of course first and formost Gods word and guidence form the holy spirit The very thing that draws us to god. God bless my fellow followers of our precious Lord jesus christ and happy trails till we meet in heaven *take care Peace.
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I think those of you who have loved ones addicted should seek out counseling in addiction for them. Obviously thay have a problem. But, that’s not the games’ fault. For every person that gets addicted there are 10,000 who do not let it take over their lives.
Maybe it’s the way you brought up your kids. ever think of that? It’s obviously something to do with your kids themselves or yoor family, and not the game. The game is a peice of plastic. It can’t be “evil” or “good”. But your kids can have addictive personalities.
And to those of you who feel magic evil spirits emanating from the game box, ooooooookaaaaaaaay. Whatever you say……Probably best not to delve into that subject here.
is world of warcraft too demonic for our children and if so should they stop
I played this game for about 6 months I’m a Christian and I can honestly say this game does not make people depressed or suicidal unless you
are mentally ill. The magic thats in the game doesn’t affect anybody spiritually like i said unless your mentally ill. I can say it is very addictive so play with moderation. But its no different then smoking (as far as addiction) or TV (as far as magic). If anything we Christians can use this game as a key to 11 million + souls If we minister to them. Alot of these gamers do not know god and we can reach them. But as for those hardcore worry warts don’t worry if one of your loved ones gets addicted to this game it wont last much longer than 6-9 months and he will be completely tired of it. As for my conclusion WOW is not against GOD unless you make it by idolizing it. But if you are Christian you should testify and minister in it or look for a Christian guild.
As a 41 year old Christian who has been saved since I was 15 I have to say I dont find anything evil or obnectionable about WoW.I have been playing for A year now and have a level 60 Holy Paladin.There are at least 2 christian guilds that I have come across with very nice members and pretty much everyone I have met in the game has been very pleasant.As for the people who claim the game is demonic or spiritually damaging that is absolutely stupid and ridiculous!So many christians seem to think we are not allowed to do anything but keep our heads stuck in our bibles and ignore everything and everyone else.Most of them are making snap judgments about a game theyve never played and are judging those who play the game as a result.Whatsthe next step?A repeat of the salem witch trials and the elmination of everyone who is not a raving fanatic?If you are looking for something bad you will find it even if you have to manaufacture it in your mind.If playing a game gives you suicidal or depressing thoughts then you had a problem before the game and need to seek professional counseling.My wife recently started playing with me and we have gotten closer as a result also.We limit ourselves to 2 hours an evening after we put our kids to bed so it doesnt interfere with our family life.Moderation is the key to fully enjoying this game.
I came across this FAQ while looking for an old group of friends who continue to play World of Warcraft (I myself quit one or two months ago) and I must admit I’m surprised at these comments…
Although I am not a Christian, nor even committed to believing in a deity I do study theology, western, eastern, Muslim, Judaic, and Christian (both Catholic, E. Orthodox and Protestant.)
Although citing scripture is as solid an argument you can make, it must also be defined correctly. Sorcery is prohibited, but this is no such thing, it’s a computer program. Broken into ones and zeros at the most basic level. If it can be claimed that the game itself is demonic then the same could be said of any program, it’s programmers being completely unknown and anonymous, anyone.
WoW has no inherent spiritual ties and although the gameplay is addicting I have yet to hear of the game matter coming into the daily life of someone who is mentally and emotionally stable, although the time and effort spent playing the game may affect or tax them greatly.
It’s an object and not inherently evil, as I’m not sure any object can be.
The forbidden fruit wasn’t bad, it was the act of defying god that was construed as evil.
Some of these posts still shock me, if you’re having “spiritual” disturbances or suicidal ideation from the presence of a computer program you might want to look for a deeper cause.
As for ministering in game, it doesn’t sound like a bad idea at all, but please be considerate to those who have different philosophies or religions (which should be respected), in game and out.
What a totally blind-leading-the-blind comment. Child pornography is 1s and 0s at it's bases level, but try to defend that. Warcraft is full of satanic symbolism and is put out by a company whose other games are full of the same. To claim anything else is simply willful ignorance.
I really believe this game is demoniac. Massive group online playing together makes their power stronger and people get more and more addicted and forget about their wifes, girlfriends, kids, responsabilities, dont sleep at night, get cold and indiferent, and all those spells, people lilling each other, all those demons and that part when they introduce the game saying ” he was arrested for 10.000 years just like in apocalipse in the bible theres a revelation about satan being arrested for the same amount of time after Jesus coming back and rescuing his people from the earth, if you read the Bible you will understand. After my husband started playing this game, strange things started to happen. He became cold, indiferent, distant. He doesnt try to get a better job, even knowing he isnt making enough money to pay the bills, he doesnt go to gym anymore, doesnt leave the computer for hours like he can play all day long, does not even the the sun light. Its like his virtual friends are more important than family, than work, than food, sports, than life! Terrible. Also I was very very concerned and scared when two weeks ago he was sleeping and I could hear he was laughing with a voice that was not his own voice, like he was possesed by a bad spirit and I swear to God I would never ever lie about that. Really scared me. I decided to delete the game from the computer, since I was the one who bought him the game as a gift not knowing that the game was so demoniac, I deeply regret and also the game is in the trash. He was upset for a while but he got over it. Come on… just looking at the game you can feel theres something really wrong about it. God bless you all.
woe…to…those…who…call…good…evil…and…evil…good….
Andrea –
It sounds more like there is something wrong with your husband, and not the game.
BI think you’re blaming an inanimate object for something you should be blaming your husband for.
If it wasn’t World of Warcraft (which is one of the best games ever made) then it would be Solitare or Minesweeper or Space Invaders or Chutes and Ladders. if it wasn’t WoW it would be alcohol or drugs.
There are millions, yes , millions of kids and adults that play this game and yet, do not bescome “possessed”. This is obviously your husband that is the problem, not the game. Come on. Aren’t you the slightest embarrassed you are blaming a piece of plastic for your woes?
God bless.
Some of you seem to have forgotten that Satan, the enemy of our souls is SUBTLE. He’s not gonna just bust down your door and say, Hey… “I’ve come to take your soul!” No, he comes thru cracks, through ways that we don’t expect… through things that we enjoy doing, and says… “did God really say…..????” Actually, this game isn’t so subtle. Satan has real power, magic, sorceries, which he portrays in games like this. No matter what you think doesn’t deny the power of it nor the effect of it on your soul. God says: “my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.”
By the way, has anyone had the courage to ask God what HE thinks about this game?
Joyce –
Yes, I’ve prayed to God, and it is His contention that we are in no danger of satan hurting us by playing this game, anymore than we have to fear satan hurting us if we play pool or light our Christmas trees (which are pagan symbols).
Play World of Warcraft all you want. If you are finding you are playing too much, stop. But, that isn’t “satan” talking…that’s our own very human frailties, that faith in God gives us stength to combat.
I worry that some Christians are simply taking the easy way out…claiming it’s all “satan’s” doing when really it is our own limitations and paranoias. Instead or working on bettering ourselves, we blame the devil. that’s simply childish.
Satan is subtle. But, putting his magical evil powers into a game called “Warcraft” sure as heck isn’t very subtle.
Subtle is when Satan has so-called Christians like Pat Robertson and Rev Hagee rail about other innocent people and claim God sent the 9/11 hijackers to kill innocent people including the children in the twin towers. Satan whispers to these false-prophets and THEY think it’s God talking,. That’s an example of Satan’s subtlty. Satan’s subtlty is when he convinces someone to start a “Jesus Camp” te teach little kids to become litle suicide bombers, in Christ’s name.
That’s how Satan works. And focusing on silly things like video games and is what the Prince of Lies wants us to focus on.
Satan is the FATHER OF THE LIES. No questions asked. End.
Satan’s subtlety is also at work when people say– it’s just a game….yes, that’s what he knew they would say….
Yes, Satan is the father of all Lies.
And he wants you to think that video games are the problem here. Not individual weaknesses of character, or poor parenting, or lousey marriages, goodness, no. It can’t be that. It must be the Devil.
This is why people see Christians as whiners. Always playing the victim role.
Its a game. Grow up. Satan is reveling in sorrow all around the world and you people think it’s in video games.
God bless you all anyway. I pray God helps you discover the intelligence within you to fight satan on the real battlegrouond. Not this silly demonic piece of plastic stuff.
I think the person who posted the comment “I’m Christain but I’m not going to get into any scripture” said it all. WOW is dangerous. it is in opposition to Gods Law. It glorifies withcraft and satanism. It promotes canabalism and senseless killing. and those of you who are christain but don’t want to get into any scripture had better get a grip.
Christains who don’t want to get into any scripture. WOW…..
It’s not dangerous at all. Grow up. It glorifies friendship, cooperation, social skills, problem solving and good over evil.
You people are embarrassing. thankfully, you’re in the vast minority.
you said:”It’s not dangerous at all. Grow up. It glorifies friendship, cooperation, social skills, problem solving and good over evil.
You people are embarrassing. thankfully, you’re in the vast minority.”
Good over evil? but what if your playing as Horde?
"Good over evil? but what if your playing as Horde?"
As the game lore tell us, the Horde and the Alliance were allied to defeat the Burning Crusade Demons.
Demons in the game are evil and both the Horde (who are not inatly evil)and the Alliance joing to defeat them. And that's a constant thru out the game. It's everyone against the demons.
So you people have a problem with defeating demons, now?
:for christians and Non christians:
Well seems we have some confused people
so to break it down for you.
if you want a definate answer christians
read the 10 commandments i know theres many things god tells us to not get involved in. back in the early 90’s you didnt catch sumone being persicuted for playing legends of Zelda plain n simple at least not biblically life was diffrent then for most of us we grew up with games are whole life and we enjoy the gaming zone So god knows are heart. theres nothing stoping you from playing a game but if you let it consume your life or control you then thats not good makes sense to both sides of the field. but yes some of us are addicts liek everyone i know =p Lord forgive us and he did on the cross if you will turn from your sin give it to god and let him guide you you will know that in everything you do put god weather your working a job playing a game or just eating or showering for that matter lol. but non believers this isnt so much playing a game is right or wrong to us. but we go by guidelines that the lord gave us to follow faithfully we have a lot of expectations and trials when we follow god its not very easy at all: Just dont Put the game in front of god let god be first *believers..non believers what can i say i pray you find truth faith mercy and love in christ as crazy and Hoaky it might seem to your intelect or mind in our world we h<ve lots od rules systems n ect. and thease rules apply to us also but we h<ve rules that god gives us 2 so this is a serious matter for some, when we read fairy tales as children sword in stone ect harmless cartoons ect they also have wizards and ect in it * on halloween we even dress like them n pretend to be somthing were not for teh sure enjoyment of the festivity but that doesnt change who we are just helps us get threw the time some people liek to play Golf some like to ride bikes or fix up cars were just in a generation where we so happen to love videogames but i stress dont love the games more then God. and be a light house for those others in game * dont waste ure time fighting n bickering with people who could careless *dont cast your pearls b4 swine sort of speak would you bless a hater of God no..but you would pray for them and try to help them see the light which you h<ve experienced being a believer myself thats why i leave you all this long laymen detailed message hope it didnt bore you. God bless to those who have jesus and to those who dont i ask you open your heart to the faith and belief of jesus christ and let him expose him self to you in your life you will find him if you just open the door =) knock and the door will be open and god will come into you if you ask him to do so with a genuine heart * to me god is not the boogy monstor or the flying tea kettle sent from mystery land , he is my creator My source my everything * I am the sinner who needed him and jesus bridged that gap on the cross by taking the worlds sin..past present future. I dont understand how somone would reject that gift we all r sinners just some dont believe they will go to hell for it or that it even exists im sure many of you at the drop of a hat would change your life to christ if the rapture happened tomarro those who were left behind given that 2nd chance to redeem and except christ dont miss that chance if u r left behind you know to ask him into your heart but since th<t hast happened yet why not give him a shot now b4 its 2 late =[2 me thsi is more of importance than some silly game * everything we create as humans will influence us and our future generations tred carefully and do good works i Hope this can take ure attention off the game and realize no matter what you do your a sinner and jesus is the way the truth and the life even paul teh apostle of christ said his heart only desire to do wicked even tho he wants to do good and follow god and those guys saw his miracles and work first hand. so dont be so hard on your self just remember to walk with god so you can grow as a man or woman in christ. and stop being babies in christ or rejecters of your salvation and (life).. thank you for reading if you want to except jesus in your heart and you dont know how to do it * just acknowlege to God say hey god im a sinner please forgive me of my sins i want to do right ,and follow you please come into my life jesus and save me from my sin wash me clean and protect me from satan and his demons Thank you for saving me jesus amen.. then start studyig a good bible preferably King james version ..trust its gods word because Gods word will never die .. it may get altered or translated down to our english or ect but that doesnt mean it changes (satan will do anything to fool you or others just remember to study god you dont become perfect in this world but its mandatory to give your life to Christ =) and VERY MUCH WORTH IT, * trust me Ive been down thease roads mant wrong ones * fear did not change me.. * God changed my heart. god works from the Inside out….so no m<tter whut u go threw remember he is always waiting to listen to you and help you..not just God but his angels his word there is so much Power in his word alone and when you give your life to god. his word lives in you.. SO Go and Level up with Jesus =) ok back to playing my lvl 70 epic out mage word sOn. =p i pray you may come to know our lord and h<ve a personal relationship with him <3 .fairwell
http://watchtower.org/e/20060915/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20000401/article_01.htm
I will bring up one simple point (and I know this game extremely well, Two level 70 toons and a high end raiding guild)
You can choose to play as a warlock. Your warlock has the ability to control demons. He is protected by demons his demons. Your warlock can even spec (specialize) in demonology.
I wont get into the subject of the game being evil in itself… some people think there are spiritual things at work, and some don’t. But I will say that the content I mentioned above is obviously in opposition with the teachings of the bible.
If I were to ask Tim, the original author of the article if it was ok to summon demons to protect me in real life… I doubt he would say it was.
If it’s wrong in real life… why is it ok to simulate it?
Does that make it ok to simulate fornication in a game? With simulated sex acts and nudity because ‘it’s a game’?
How about simulated murder? Rape?
I’m making an effort to avoid things that can’t be proven one way or the other. We can’t prove that someone can come to spiritual harm (supernaturally) by playing the game… but from a practical viewpoint we can say that the content is not something that a Christian Pastor should condone.
I can see if a person is spiritually fragile and unconfident in his or her faith, that playing any game not involving fluffy pink animals with halos around their heads, might be “dangerous” to them.
But, those people shouldn’t be anywhere near electricity anyway.
For normal Christians, you have no more to fear of this game than you do a plate of deviled eggs, for heaven’s sake. Again, people need to grow up. There’s plenty of real evil in the real world to put your energy in fixing. Focusing on a game is a waste of your time.
And I just followed the link to the watchtower article on Witchcraft.
What does that have to do with a video game? Anything?
In response to TimPundit:
Are you saying that as long as you are spiritually strong, and confident in your faith your are free to play with things that trivialize spiritual things.
I don’t think a game like WOW radiates evil from the box or anything silly like that, but it does allow you to do things that contradict the teachings of the bible.
Simulating sin shouldn’t be condoned. If you want to argue that it’s no worse then what you’ll see on TV or in the movies… your right. That stuff isn’t any better. Violence is glorified, sex sells, and while we’re at it why don’t we make fun of Christ and make Christians look like a bunch of fools. ‘Entertainment’ , (games, movies, music, tv) has become quite foul and anti-god.
2 Corinthians 10
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
We fight againsted the the unseen. You cannot dismiss that things like WoW, can have a spiritual impact on lives. Again, we may not “”see”” what we are allowing to impact us, but just keep aware, on what you allow into your life.
If your influenced by this game to be satan or a demon or a retard then dont play it plain and simple use your common sence its just a game. ive never read any scripture that says anything about video games come on. i supose when you played candy land and dr mario and atari it wasnt demons or satan.. truth is sin is all around you all day 24 7 .. and no sin can keep a true believer out of heaven.. peace out weirdos..
there is so much wrong with what all of you have said it is mind blowing.
what would Jesus do if he was playing W.o.W well first of all i seriously doubt jesus would play w.o.w it portrays lots of indecent exposure sexual gestures. rude people crazy people fantasy world stuff and ohhh yea diper wearing goblins who rip out your heart and punch you with fire balls.. ect.. ******but hold the phone a second…isnt our world of reality quit similar WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW were all sinners we all lust steal cheat lie murder hate fornicate disobey and pretend were all richious and put other thinsg b4 god all teh time NO wonder were in the position were allready in…hmm so mabey he would play =-) afterall (god) is the creator of all things.. that means he invented sin and everything to do with it and made a place for sinners .. but man he loved us so much he gave us jesus to die for our sins so why not be safe and not sorry and give jesus a chance he loves you..what ever game your playing what ever job your working what ever life style you live ** can you drop it all and follow christ>?????? i had to give it all up jobs family games even food and house god broke me down to the core..but i gained faith out of it everything you have is a gift from god so treat it like god is allowing you to have it and participate Spread the Gospel to thease lost souls get some people saved while your enjoying your game time look for an opertunity to share the gospel of jesus christ. or you can choos eto ignore god and the gospel and christ and ect hey no skin off my back but dont say i didnt warn you =) god bless you brothers and sisters we will all be victorious jesus loves you..the fact is every thing is a tool and satan will rise to power threw lots of diffrent things things none of us understand or see but cant no demon or satan or game or anything break you from Jesus * the alpha the OMEGA!!! there is none HIGHER>< WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOt. im out peace SON keep it real and rep for christ IM OUT THIS Piece.
“Are you saying that as long as you are spiritually strong, and confident in your faith your are free to play with things that trivialize spiritual things.”
WoW doesn’t deal with my spirituality, or trivialize it, so I don’t know what you are talking about.
“I don’t think a game like WOW radiates evil from the box or anything silly like that, but it does allow you to do things that contradict the teachings of the bible.”
The bible is against playing games?
“Simulating sin shouldn’t be condoned.”
Sure it can. So when kids use their imagination and play cops and robbers, one of them is pretending to be a thief. So we should stone that kid becasue he isn’t playing your way?
If you want to argue that it’s no worse then what you’ll see on TV or in the movies… your right. That stuff isn’t any better. Violence is glorified, sex sells, and while we’re at it why don’t we make fun of Christ and make Christians look like a bunch of fools. ‘Entertainment’ , (games, movies, music, tv) has become quite foul and anti-god.”
Well, that’s because a lot of Christians act like a bunch of fools. Claiming a video game is inspired by the devil and claiming God doesn’t like anyone playing a video game AND acting like you know God’s mind IS looking like a fool. Sorry, but it is.
You (not you, personally) act like a fool, you can’t blame people for thinking that you are.
Get real. I love the Lord, but sometimes I think He looks down on us and thinks to himself “What a bunch of total TOOLS, some of my followers are.”
Like the saying goes, “Dear Jesus, protect me from your followers”.
Peace out. And may all your hits be crits.
level70tank makes some really good points. As well as Faith Miracle Builder who used the Word. Shouldn’t that be our guildebook? Wow…. if God hates witchcraft, why should we role play the likes of it? What about how God says “come out from among them, and be ye separate. Touch not the unclean thing, and i will receive you says the Lord?” If this isn’t unclean, then what is? You think that all you’re seeing in the game are cheap imitations of the real thing. I beg to differ. Brother Ricardo Cid is a man who died, (or almost died), and was taken into heaven and also the 2nd heaven where the enemy of our souls had his kingdom. When he was there, he saw demons that looked familiar to him. Guess who he saw– does anybody remember the “Thundercats” cartoon from when you were a kid? Well, that’s who he saw. He also saw the “Power Rangers”, as well as some other “character” that they show in his home country of Chile. Um, yah. He asked the angel about it, and you might be surprised at what he said. He told him that some of those who make cartoons have made a pact with the enemy to portray actual demons in their cartoons. Whoa. And you don’t think they would do the same with games like Warcraft that openly manifest Satan’s kingdom? Here are some of his own words:
“The angels said “Be quiet! We are taking you to the third heaven where Jesus is waiting to talk with you!” The angels stopped and during this moment I was looking in all directions but couldn’t see anything created, I don’t know where I was, but I think it was the second heaven…… ………… I then was bracing myself in the fetal position while the angels were holding me and suddenly felt and heard the terrible noise of a stampede above me. The angels squeezed me and said, “Ricardo, don’t fear, Jesus is with us!” As they were speaking, they also said, “Turn up your head and look above you!” I then was surprised by what I was looking at because there was some kind of motion by creatures above us…. ………Then the angels started motioning for me to look more closely and they showed me the faces of these creatures and that many of these horrible beings are already shown to us…..”
Feel free to read the account of Ricardo Cid at : http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/Ricardo_Cid/Ricardo_Cid_8_Horas_en_el_Cielo_English.htm (you can scroll down to the middle of the page, until you see the pictures of some of the demonic cartoon characters.
Playing with games such as this is an open door to demons to wreak havoc in your life.
And even if you doubt this, or that they even exist, it does not change the fact that they working in your life, with your permission. Truth is stranger than fiction. And the unseen is more real than the seen.
“Wherefore also go forth from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be my sons and daughters.” 2 Corinthians 6:17
p.s. oh…. but, “it’s just a cartoon”…..
If you are already weak in your faith then a bowl of chickpeas could tempt you.
It’s only a game, and yes, Joyce that’s ONLY a cartoon.
You’re faith may be that feeble to be swayed by a silly video game, but mine isn’t. And Brother Cid feels his faith is too weak, he should probably avoid cartoons.
And thanks goes to him that he can see that Hunger and Pverty isn’t the biggest threat to the world as much as Power Rangers cartoons. I’m rolling my eyes, in case you wondered.
If the Devil is watching any of this, he’s laughing his tail off at the Christians who are wasting time worried about games and cartoons, and making Chrisitinas look like morons, while all the injustice of poverty and hunger and disease sweep the world.
You people really have your priorities screwed up. And Satan loves that.
I think Brother Cid should lay off the peyote, too.
The use of drugs is considered sorcery.
Its no wonder you afraid you kids will be influenced by a game, you yourself are influenced by blind faith. Lets hope your kids are smarter.
In response yet again to TimPundit.
I follow your logic… kids playing cops and robbers. Where do you draw the line right? This is sound human logic you’re using. However consider this.
What drives a child to play cops and robbers? What drives grown men to watch action movies. I believe it to be our sin nature. We are attracted to violence (sin), and from a very early age. We much on popcorn and watch our favorite stars blow away the bad guys. (In the same way that less civilized cultures watched arena combat or some people love to watch dog fights).
Before you dismiss my logic, try to see the big picture. Consider your own natural desires. I like violent movies, I like seeing naked women, I like playing violent video games. Why? Because saved or not, I still have flesh that craves things that are not of God. Isn’t that why we are taught to “take every thought into captivity”.
Again the story about the cartoons and pacts with the devil are as silly to me as you, so I’m trying to apply some practical logic as to why I don’t think a christian website should condone World Of Warcraft.
“What drives a child to play cops and robbers? What drives grown men to watch action movies.”
Fun. Good clean fun.
“I believe it to be our sin nature. We are attracted to violence (sin), and from a very early age. We much on popcorn and watch our favorite stars blow away the bad guys. (In the same way that less civilized cultures watched arena combat or some people love to watch dog fights).”
When you say “less civilized” you also mean the United States, too, right? Or havne’t you seen professional wrestling and Ultimate Fighting on TV?
“Before you dismiss my logic, try to see the big picture. Consider your own natural desires. I like violent movies, I like seeing naked women, I like playing violent video games. Why? Because saved or not, I still have flesh that craves things that are not of God. Isn’t that why we are taught to “take every thought into captivity”.”
If you take part in hurting people who do not wisdh to be hurt, then yes, that’s against God’s teaching.
But when you play a video game or play the part of a villian in a movie or play, that’s not against God in anyway, whatsoever. You’re playing the part. And for my part, God is smart enough to understand this. Same with WoW. He knows its a game, He’s a lot smarter than you mere mortals give Him credit. And God likes it when I’m happy and playing.
Wow! There some amazing comments on here. I see some concerned people, and I see some very sarcastic people posting here. The concerned people are wanting knowledge concerning the game (WoW) from a conservative viewpoint, (which is the best view in my opinion) and the ones who have the knowledge because they play the game, are so sarcasticaly disrespectful noone seems to be getting anywhere in this blog.
(case in point below)
“Tim Says:
December 20th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
The game is not “demonic”. The game was made by humans, in case you were wondering.
The day God or the Devil take a part in programming, developing and producing MMORPGs, will be the day we discover Santa really does make all those toys.
Get a grip, people. Not everything with horns is a demon.”
So games that are made by humans cannot be demonic?
I think the issue needs to go alittle deeper. Paul said that “all things are permissable”…but that not all things are “profitable.”
we need to focus our time as pastors on the things that are profitable for the working of ministry. Someone told me once that “what others do, leaders may not.” I have always used this rule when in situations like this. This game has roused many heated arguments. Paul (the apostle)would use I think a similar approach. Liek when he said he would rather not eat meat if it would cause someone else to stumble, or arouse thier temper. So in closing if you feel that you can play WoW, ok good for you, but maybe we should not use forums such as this to openly express opinion that cause sarcasism and emotional flares to rise!
(Another case in point below)
TimPundit Says:
June 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I can see if a person is spiritually fragile and unconfident in his or her faith, that playing any game not involving fluffy pink animals with halos around their heads, might be “dangerous” to them.
But, those people shouldn’t be anywhere near electricity anyway.
For normal Christians, you have no more to fear of this game than you do a plate of deviled eggs, for heaven’s sake. Again, people need to grow up. There’s plenty of real evil in the real world to put your energy in fixing. Focusing on a game is a waste of your time.
When you go over and over about the issue and someone still pipes up that the game is “evil” there is no other way to respond except with sarcasm. You get tired of trying to talk sense to insensible people, no matter how well intentioned they may be.
Pieces of plastic are not evil. Guns are not evil. Fire is not evil. Mosquitoes are not evil.
People are evil. And people can use any of the above and more for evil purposes. But the things themselves are not evil.
No, Justin. A game cannot be ‘demonic”. That’s silly and childish.
If you play WoW you have nothing to fear unless you are spiritually or emotionally fragile and weak in the first place. And if that is the case, you probably shouldn’t even be driving let alone working a computer.
Once again all your spiritual turmoil over this GAME is wasted effort. If you give a damn about real evil in this world work to end hunger and violence agaisnt your fellow man.
Not to make silly objections to a silly little game. Use the brains God gave us all.
TimPundit,
I am curious, are you a youth pastor, or a youth worker? I am just alittle concerned that your usage of this forum is becoming somewhat indignant. We are simply posting questions or concerns here, not looking for someone to bash us with their obviously liberal convictions over this or other games, or for any topic in these forums. If you want to disrespect people, then please use a different blog space for that. If not then please consider the tone in your typing and show some due respect to those of us who are TRYING OUR BEST to help guide and direct youth who may not have the spiritual stability you have.
When I see people more worried over a video game than they are over homeless people, yeah, I think priorities are skewed.
“Liberal”??? Is that what you think? that this is political? I think you should reshape your own paradgm…just because I think people are dumb for thinking magic evil spells radiate from their game, doens’t make me a “liberal”. There is NOTHING liberal or conservative about God or Christianity. Nothing. If you are a Pastor or Youth Counselor I hope you aren’t filling their heads with what a liberal or a conservative is, are you? Because I don’t think you really know.
Sorry the tone of my writing doens’t bring to mind pink teddy bears and candy canes.
Look, if all you want here is a little “amen” corner where you all sit around nodding in agreemnet with each other, fine. I assumed since this forum wasn’t private, anyone could chime in…especially those who disagree.
And I suggest to you that very few ‘youth’ do not understand what WoW is and what it isn’t. I suspect it’s more adults with political agendas that drive this pretend “concern”.
Once again…WoW is a computer game it is no more evil than your microwave or your telephone. Grow up, people and fight the real fight.
TimPundit,
For my own sake I would like to point you to a scripture which I beleive is a motivating factor to discuss, well hopefully discuss, this game and other topics to the degree we have been.
Romans 12:2 NKJV “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”
ok, a few things pop out to me.
1. “do not be conformed”
Greek “scheme” , or “schematic” meaning to mold or shape oneself to a model or pattern.
It is obvious there are certain “patterns”, or “schemes” in the “world”. People who do not know God’s Genesis to Revelation character do not pattern themselves after God’s ways or patterns.
Do we do what everyone in the world does and does not even think twice about it? Of course we don’t!
This is a foundational Biblical truth!
2.”conformed to this “world””
Secondly there is a political agenda going on here, in fact a major “political” agenda going on! We see the God of the universe and the “gospel” and the god of this world in a battle over the “minds” of people. 2 Corinthians 4:4 explains this in detail. The god of this age has blinded the “minds” of the people who do not believe, or as we know from word study that “believe” is interchagable with “being a doer of the word”, or someone who actually lives what they beleive, the two are not seperable. You can not say you beleive in something but have no action supporting it.
3.”renewing of your mind”
This I beleive is what we are truly talking about here. When I talk about music, or movies, or games, or books, or any activity I always talk about what motivation is behind doing what we do. Why do we listen to certain music, why do we watch certain movies. We teach about discernment. Why did so and so sing about such and such. True man looks at the outer but God lookks at the inward motives. We too should discern what kinds of entertainment we partake of.
We renew our minds by not filling it with whatever the “world” would like to tell us. We know from the Bible that what “they” the “world” says, what “they” do what “they” write what “they” program into games is a result of a blinded mind, blinded because they do not believe, or they do not “do” the truth.
I for one do not want to waste time by subjecting myself to useless entertainment. And as long as I am responsible for my student who God has intrusted me with. They too will learn that not all entertainment is for their benefit!
I agree with you Tim that this is a political battle! And man am I ever ready for a good war! The thing is I know I have already one!
And as far as the poor go…man I am all about that. thats why we do missions, both local and overseas.. We have a huge heart for them. But not all feeding is simply for the belly. We should also feed them the word of God accurately, teaching them to guard their minds and hearts against the battle warring over them!
Tim my friend, I beleive you have good intentions. You obviously have a heart for the poor and the needy, but I must say that on this subject you have not “rightly divided the word of truth.” I also am convinced that you at least at this point do not have the heart of a “pastor”, if you did you would understand that a pastor has many many many many things he must balance. We can not do everything. We have people under us who have a vision and a heart for many different thing. But we must balance what we can do and not do. We might not be able to feed all the hungry people in the world alone.. We must feed the ones we have under our care also. this includes feeding them wisdom and knowledge of how to make right descision. These good descision could lead to someone being trained up with a vision to do what you have suggested we do!
I am glad to be in this war doing my part!
Justin
Found this interesting earlier in the thread:
It is clearly written in Galatians 5:19-21, God forbids sorcery.
“Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
There is a lot of focus on ‘sorcery’ with people but what about all the rest? How about the infighting that can creep into all organisations, even churches, there you see envy, jealousy, fighting and even hatred – all in the list. Does God give up on those with such lapses? Not many would believe so, yet there is the focus on sorcery – why? Perhaps its because its the one sin we think we can avoid and so look at the speck and avoid the plank as it were.
If you look at the account of Simon the Sorcerer (in Acts). Was him being a sorcerer something that prevented him being accepted as a convert? No. So why was he warned that he may lose his place in the kingdom? Because he tried to buy God’s favour with money. Time and again Jesus and the later writings of his apostles speak against the dangers of money but don’t really mention magic much, why then do some Christians bang on about magic whilst not speaking against greed in their congregations?
It is because people like money and so choose to concentrate on something else. They ignore Christ’s message and focus their anger (also in that list) on an external target.
Not saying magic is a good idea, it probably does have many pitfalls we should keep away from but if you want to save your childrens souls make sure they are not slaves to money first as that was the overwhelming message of Christ. Don’t pick out little references to magic and ignore the long passages about love of wealth.
I see a lot of quotes here like Galatians 5, Romans and there are countless others. To address Galatians 5, God isn’t talking about giving up competition or you’d be at every basketball game protesting. Yes, there are conflicts between players. There is also conflict between co workers. You are never going to eliminate it. Romans? What you’re saying is we need to sit in a chair contemplating Him and nothing more. This is not what He wants at all. Kids do not see this game as reality, there are no minotaur or orcs running around. For them this is an escape from reality, not another reality. It’s an escape and a hobby, not something they are going to try to imitate. As for the ideas and concepts, it is ALWAYS good vs. evil and players cannot choose evil or ransack villages, nothing like this.
It is just a game. It is not sorcery. It is not a Ouija board (those ARE evil) it will not summon demons or let you put charms on your parents to get your way. It will never tell you to get a gun and kill 30 people at your school. It is not porn, it does not promote drinking and driving, smoking or drug use. It WILL keep your child off the streets at late hours of the night. It will keep him at home where he is save, it will promote his being social and teach him there are consequences to being rude, mean or a thief. As for causing you to pursue actual witchcraft, grow up. pursuing witchcraft is not as exciting as one might think. In the game, you can throw fireballs from your hands. If this were real, don’t you think modern warfare would be a bit different?
That being said, this is where parents need to step in. No, the game is not evil but like anything, it can be taken too far. This game has ruined marriages where the player has let the game become an obsession. Thou shalt have no other God before ME. Like anything else, money, TV, drugs, it has the capacity to become an obsession and replace friends, family and even God Himself. The game goes on and on, it is not a game you beat and move on. As such, it is extremely time consuming to become better and better. This is where parents have to step in and allow only a couple hours a night. If you would let them watch TV an hour a night, this can take that time and nothing more. Make them go out and play, do their chores and if their grades lag, their game time lags. It is in your hands, but don’t name the game demonic. Your misunderstanding the game and blindly throwing out the devil stamp is reminiscent of witch hunts. You can look anywhere and find the devil. You can also look anywhere and find God there. Even a strip club is full of His children, though admittedly the strays. For the record I do not frequent those places, I fear and serve God to the best of my ability and raise my children to love and trust Him. I simply am gifted to see both sides of any topic.
Marcos “…gifted to see both sides of any topic.”
I thought this was an interesting closing statement. I would suggest that our only concern is what the Bible says on this topic..We don’t need to see the “other” side if the Bible is clear on what is acceptable and pleasing to the Lord. I would also suggest that the poeple on this thread actually do some research on the effects of voilent games, and movies etc. Barna research (www.barna.org) has some good findings, the Parents Television Council (www.parentstv.org) has excellent research data. The Virgina shootings, linked to things the man looked at, listened to, put in his heart…in fact that reminds me of a BIble verse….something like …”out of the abundance of the heart..” Funny how the Bible knows so much. It is important that we guard what goes into our heart by way of the eyes, ears etc. Those “seeds” will produce after themselves if not plucked up and replaced with the “seed” of the “word”, (Bible).
Marcos, “Your misunderstanding the game and blindly throwing out the devil stamp is reminiscent of witch hunts. You can look anywhere and find the devil.”
I guess “avoiding the appearance of evil” is out of the question here?
Not being a stumbling block? Pual said himself that he wouldn’t eat meat if it might cause someone to stumble. Something so simple as not eating meat…..but yet we would choose something more questionable to defend our permissableness in it! Foolish!
Granted Paul said that “all things are permissable”…..(although I doubt playing with wizardry and magic was not what he was thinking at the moment) but……this is where we have missed it……”but not all things are profitable.”
Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way that “SEEMS” right unto a man, but it’s end leads to death.”
Can we honestly ask ourselves..is this something that in my own understanding I have accepted as profitable? …have I really asked the Lord if this is something that is going to hinder me in my path, my destiny?
I would assume by the attitude of many of the replies on this thread that, no….this has not been a subject seriously brought before the Lord with a sincere heart.
Those with eyes to see and ears to hear can simply open the Bible know the heart of God on these and other issues.
This is not an argument about “Video Games Vs. The Poor & Needy”, as someone has stated in other threads. This is an argument about the “state of our hearts” before the Lord.
Saw your tweet on the discussions here today and thought I’d check it out.
I think that there’s so many people who are willing to be black and white on some things but not others. It’d be interesting to see into the lives of the “anti-Wow” people here, to see if they live every aspect of their lives with such conviction and black and white-ness as they say is needed with WoW.
My guess…probably not. Thanks Tim for keeping it real! Keep it up man.
Justin, everything has 2 sides, even the moon. Should we see only the side of the moon the bible quotes? Look at child custody or hot coffee law suits. They have two sides and I can see both. My comment on seeing both sides doesn’t mean I see God’s view and the devil’s view. Everyone here who has posted in defense of the game is not going to burn, they are simply people who play a game who want others to use their minds, think for themselves and not be sheep. This is the other view I’m referring to. I can also see your view on avoiding anything that isn’t somehow tied to the Lord. That is a gift He’s given me and if you choose to spit in His eye and call it a curse that’s your prerogative, have at it.
And yes, avoiding the appearance of evil is out of the question on this topic because once again, the game in and of itself is not evil. It doesn’t even look evil. You want to see evil, look at the Ouija or extremists in Dungeons and Dragons. This is a PC game and while it can become an obsession and it can become a monster it is not unlike peoples jobs which can also become obsessions. Yes that comparison is a bit of a stretch but is it really? More marriages have disintegrated due to workaholic drive than this game.
A way that seems right but leads to death? No one reading these posts think that WoW will get them to Heaven. No one thinks it will one day save the world or their soul. It’s just a game, just a way to pass time and entertain one’s self.
There is a line between concerned Christian and the self righteous Pharisee. Bear in mind, it is not us nor our deeds that make us just, but His grace.
i am trying to let my family know how “not bad” the game really is.. i play it, and have for a little over a year. and i tell all of you, it hasent made me into the devil here, i pray to God -and he didnt stop me from playing this game or any other. as long as there is balence to ones life aka the balence of life- i believe that we can do a lot more then people see. steping out to do somthing as bold as just playing a game to christians when they see that its “bad” and face nonchristins daily or whenever plaid, is a bold thing, as long as you are prepaird and garded by the love of Christ, all things shall be well. you might just get someone to think a little more, you might just let yourself relax and enjoy your time before facing somthing stressful, im sure that the path in ones life leads you to your destiny, and God will see you through it, no matter what.
Wow (no pun intended) this has been a very spiritually, mentally, and physically taxing subject.
My name is Ryan, I just started playing World of Warcraft again. I have played this game before and I cannot emphasize how addicting this game is. My personality is not addicting; I can quit what a I start whatever it is (with the Lord’s provision and will).
I have had sessions in this game that have easily surpassed the nine hour mark. Take what it says in Bible about idolatry (exodus, romans, etc, and how ANYTHING that is taking up our time excessively and is detracting from out relationship with the Lord can be an “idol.”
World of Warcraft was just that for me. My my, looking back, if I had just spent a fraction of the time I spent killing mystical creatures and completing quests in Azeroth, I would have grown so much in my relationship with the Lord.
I do believe that there are some Christians who are able to play this game in their lives without letting it become an idol. For me I ask, why should you play with something so tempting, knowingly jeopardizing your relationship and walk with Christ?
If you are concerned about this game, I would bring it to a fellow brother or sister; pray about it and talk to your youth pastor.
Good luck and Godbless. Through our trials we learn the most in our walk with the Lord =)
I read these posts & all I see are alot of people who have swallowed the whole fundamentalist stance on what is percieved to be “witchcraft”, hook line & sinker. No one even bothers anymore to do their own research & find out for themselves what God was talking about in the Old Testament or what Paul was talking about in the New Testament when they spoke of witchcraft & sorcery.
From a biblical perspective, sorcery or witchcraft is to communicate with FALLEN ANGELS (or demons) for the purposes of obtaining power &/or knowledge to gain advantage over their surroundings or relationships. When was the last time anyone cast a fireball or spouted lightning from their fingertips? Is that what God was talking about when he forbade sorcery? Why is it that people feel that God wans't clear enough so it's their holy mission in life to constantly reinterpret Gods' word against what they don't like?
Games like World of Warcraft, movies and books like The Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter have no basis whatsoever in reality & to claim that what appears in these games, books & movies is the sorcery that God forbade speaks volumes regarding the ability of many of Christians to read & understand the scriptures, which isn't surprising really considering the frightening inroads that Legalism has made into the churches that used to stand for the liberty from legalism that only Christ can give. Instead these theological “lemmings” soak up everything that their “preachers” (most often these people have no ablility to perform even the most basic exegesis of the scriptures.) claim to be "truth" & then set out to corrupt others with their faulty theology.
These games, books & movies are no different than the situation Paul described when he spoke of meat sacrificed to idols. For some Christians they can partake of these various mediums of entertainment with no spiritual harm, to them the subject matter is pure fantasy & has no basis in reality. To them it is not sin. To others, they can't partake without either doubting (which is sin) or it offending their conscience. They sin if they do partake. On the other hand, They who can partake without doubt, sin if they rub their freedom in the faces of them to whom it is sin. What many Christians fail to see though is that it's an equally as grievous sin for those who find these games/books/movies sinful to go out & force their opinions on everyone else & tell them they're in error.
The legalists seem to forget that when Paul approached the church in Jerusalem to ask them about what is sinful for Gentile Christians, he was told only to tell the gentiles to abstain from the meat of strangled animals & sexual immorality. Put this up against "love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul mind & strength and love your neighbour as you love yourself" & you'll see that there is a heck of a lot of things He has left open to us but that must also be tempered by His desire that we seek Him in all things.
The basic problem with this whole issue is that very few Christians want to be responsible for their own salvation. They want their Pastors, Elders & favourite preachers to do all of their thinking & Bible study for them & spoon feed them on Sundays because if the people who are running around telling other Christians that they can catch a demon (another insidious heresy to say that the Holy Spirit will share a vessel with an unclean spirit) like you can catch a cold, just from playing a game or watching a movie, actually learned how to read & study the bible for themselves, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Anyone can quote scriptures out of context with no understanding of the ancient grammatical roots of the words. Most evangelical ministers today compose entire sermons based on just one line out a passage which has no semblance at all to the message the original writer was conveying. It takes a different person altogether though, to find out what a passage truly says, in context with the rest of the book, & understand what was really being said. But as I said, very few truly wish to accept any responsibility for themselves in our present age & Christians are no exception.
My first concern is that the host of this discussion, who I am assuming is a youth minister of some capacity, suggests “resisting the urge to quote a lot of bible verses” (9/29/07).
Does that not speak volumes?
I’ve heard all of the arguements . . . “I use it as a witnessing tool” . . . “It’s just good clean fun” . . . “It’s just a game”.
My challenge to you is this, find good scriptural evidence (sorry, Tim) that gives believers permission to engage in an activity that promotes witchcraft, communicating with the dead, casting spells, and demonic rituals.
My final question is this . . .
To those of you defending this and other similar games and involved in any type of pastoring, mentoring, or any type of leadership of christian youth:
Suppose that one of the kids that you work with mentions that he/she has started hanging around with some friends from school who are into this Wiccan religion. They are making contact with all of these really cool powers and supernatural forces. He/She doesn’t seem to have a big problem with it, after all it’s a lot like World of Warcraft.
What do you say to him or her?
This may get me banned from this discussion, but here goes . . .
(again, sorry Tim)
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 (NASB)
“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whosoever does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these things the Lord your God will drive them out before you.”
HI GUYS MY INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS AND IS THE ONLY ONE THAT'S RIGHT, ALL OTHER INTERPRETATIONS ARE THE WORK OF SATAN AND IF THEY DON'T BELEIVE EXACTLY WHAT I BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING OT HELL
How else should someone interpret Deuteronomy 18:9-12?
I assume by your veiled sarcasm that you assume to have the right answer, so please clarify.
Hello I’m not going to realy get into the scriptures I only have one thing to say we r asking all these people if wow is demonic y don’t we just ask the person who created this universe who created us. God can talk to u all u have to do is just listen
Hello everyone, I am a World of Warcraft gamer.
There are many "demonic" things throughout this game, people, believe it or not. Simple way to spot this is just by taking a look around you, or perhaps, at your characters "Cloak", once you get a decent one that is. Almost EVERYWHERE you look there is a "face" drawing, on the walls, characters items/gear, floor, buildings etc. Take a closer look and you will see an evil face EVERYWHERE, and like I said, your characters cloak is a good way to spot this.
As you progress through the game you will come across very satanic "quests" and beats with horns and evil names, a good example is found in region of Felwood in the Kalimdor in a place called Jaedenar.
For instance, the class Warlock, is pretty much a demonic class players get to choose. You can summon and control "minions" which look totally evil. You cast terrying spells and make your enemies "fear" in horror.
In the region of Duskwood in the Eastern Kingdoms, I have spotted creepy yellow "eyes" that suddenly appear in the bushes through out the region, this really freaked me out.
As far as addiction goes, just look at how many people agree the game is addictive. Truth is, the games takes a serious amount of time and dedication to achieve anything, to level up, to acquire new/better gear etc, and you always want your character to become "Stronger" and trust me it takes ALOT of time and ALOT of YOUR LIFE!
I am 21 years old, I started playing WoW back in 2007 and tell you the truth I do not really remember ANYTHING about my life before I started playing the game. I had a girlfriend at the time, I do not anymore. I would play WoW from 9am until 4am non stop. I stopped working out, I only got up to use the bathroom and eat and sometimes I even skipped that. The game made me lazy to do simple things like hang out with friends or enjoy simple things in life. The only thing I wanted to do was play WoW.
I am still playing World of Warcraft but in a moderation. I am seriously thinking about stopping COMPLETELY but I feel like I am still very addicted to it.
My advice to anyone whose thinking about trying it out is DO NOT ! Do not listen to the commercials or radios ads, trust me, you will be glad you did not.
Hope this helps!
I lol'd. Seriously.
WOW, 2 sides to the story huh. I myself use to play the game for over a year and it does have demonic undertones. Im not saying that the makers of the game are demonic or evil in any way but it dosent matter when the enemy will use what ever area he can get to in your life. there is a pull on this game if you dont believe me dont play the game for 2 weeks thats a challenge and and see what you feel. When i stopped there was a weight that lifted off me. And one of my fiends that played will me i had to end that friendship she got really controlling over me on who i could play with and she was never like that. Reguardless to say she was really mad at me when i ended the game. Yes god gave us free will but we cant take his grace for granted either. Yes we all sin and fall short of his glory and we will never be perfect but he wants us to be perfected.
Tim – I believe this is a topic we have to exercise great caution in. From the vampire themed Twilight books to the Harry Potter craze, it's a tight line to give the appearance of a green light to products sold with evil themes. But that's not just when it's overtly that way… how many Christian households have a favorite TV show they watch that contains sex and anatomy more than they will concede?
Then there's the dad angle… I'm doing my best to keep my boys excellent in what is good and innocent of evil as long as possible. We take "breaks" from that where I show them something on purpose that they can handle, but only in a teaching capacity – "Guys, there's a reason we're not seeing that movie." etc.
So what I'll add to this conversation is that it "felt" like you green lit WoW… for families trying to keep their kids away from such things, it *felt* disrespectful to that value. And personally I disagree that the worse thing of letting kids play is they become wizards… I think the worse thing that would happen is they think of evil in a lesser way.
On the other hand, many of those readers have been inappropriate in their comments. You can't promote holiness when you're laying down curses, folks… so try to handle your disagreement a bit more along the lines of the purity you are challenging Tim with.
One more add one – you are all right that a game is just digital and a controller is just a piece of plastic… and neither are evil.
That's not an argument, though. It's a bad line of logic… that's like saying a gun is just a piece of steel and isn't evil. You're right… it is.
But don't stop your line of thinking there.
For when we place that into the hand of a kid, that gun becomes reckless and dangerous.
Which, I suppose, you could argue that anything could be.
Including a game.
The church has no desire to lead others to Christ and is totally distracted with TV, video games, etc.. WoW is just another distraction the enemy of our souls has laid out there for Christians to justify playing. Every day almost 5300 people die in America with most going to Hell and video game playing Christians could care less. You will give an account.
Anyone who convinces themselves that they should look into witchcraft because they can cast fireballs in a video game is mentally unstable to begin with. Obviously this game was not intended to lead one into the terrible world of witchery, and I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to find a person (of sound mind) among the 11 million who play WoW who were "pushed over the edge" because of this game.
I have never felt it necessary to moderate comments on my site because I really value differing opinions and viewpoints — it encourages me to think through my position on an issue and I love the ongoing dialog.
But for some reason when it comes to WoW, Christian's can't be civil toward each other. I see nothing but name calling, judgmental attitudes, and Pharisaical condemnation on both sides of the issue in these comments and it disgusts me. Have you forgotten that regardless of whether we play WoW or not, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ? And even if you think that someone who plays WoW cannot somehow also be a Christian, I would hate to see how you treat other unbelievers around you. Seriously. It's because of discussions like the ones in the comments above that brings shame to the reputation of Christians and especially to Jesus.
So, since you people cannot show Ephesians 4:29 maturity in your speech, I am closing down comments to this WoW post for good. And if you decide to send your rant to me via email instead, it will be promptly deleted with no response.